Sound Capabilities

[Sjatplat]

Hi All

When I finally found a game project that I thought would fit into Livecode I forgot how limited the sound capabilites in livecode are and how little is documented in the manual.
If I don't use quicktime (for compatibilty reasons) - what formats are supported? Does Livecode use a built-in player when dontUseQT is set to true?
The manual has ONE - 1 - page dedicated to the player object....it's almost embarrasing.

With my limited knowledge of the capabilities of the player - I have been thinking of creating a soundtrack with multiple tracks that I can turn on and off.
E.g. adding the timpanis track when the player goes to battle...

I am Really happy about the two last livecode updates with faster graphics and more field options (even if I payed too much already). The sound part of Livecode should get a similar treatment.

Does anyone know if there is a comprehensive guide to sound control and the player object in livecode?

Sjat

[Klaus]

Dag Sjat,

yes, the sound capabilities and mulitmedia playback in general definitively need an overhaul!
Especially since there will probably not be a windows version of QuickTIme anymore in the near future!
I read this in the "Read Me" of the last update for iTunes Windows:
...
iTunes does not install or need QuickTime anymore!
...
Well, that means a little period of grace for LiveCode to do something slick with multimedia

Livecode is capable to play a limited number of soundformats without the help of the underlying OS and that are:
AIFF and WAV UNCOMPRESSED! That means no "AIFC" e.g.!
And the compressed AU format.

I doubt there is a "comprehensive guide to sound control and the player object in livecode", but if you have specific
QT questions I would galdly answer them, I use QT/multimedia a LOT

Hope that helps.


Best

Klaus


Best

Klaus

[Sjatplat]

Thanks Klaus.

I am just starting to dig into the sound part of my project and as I hinted at in my post I want to make a soundtrack with multiple tracks and turn on and off tracks when I want to. There is a couple of things that are not clear to me:

1. What capabilities does the player object have if I set dontUseQT to true? (turn off QT) The manual says it uses the windows media subsystem. What does the windows media subsystem support compared to QT. Can I still use callbacks?

2. what happens in Osx when dontUseQT is set to true?

Sjat

[Klaus]

Hi Sjat,

1. What capabilities does the player object have if I set dontUseQT to true? (turn off QT) The manual says it uses the windows media subsystem. What does the windows media subsystem support compared to QT. Can I still use callbacks?

The WMP also supports a limited number of formats like WMV...
E.g. MP4 is NOT supported per default, at least here on my Windows XP and Win 7!
This means you need to install some codecs collections like "ffdshow" and/or "LAVFilters".
http://ffdshow-tryout.sourceforge.net/
http://code.google.com/p/lavfilters/

When the media will play in WindowsMediaPlayer, the it SHOULD also play in a player object, but this is not guaranteed!
To be honest, I have tried this a couple of times ("set the dontuseqt to true" on Windows) and the result simply sucks!

Sorry, never tried "callbacks" without QuickTime.

2. what happens in Osx when dontUseQT is set to true?

Since this is the multimedia engine of OS X I, personally would not do this, since it would result in the loss of complete multimedia
playback capabilities. But of course this is not forbidden by law!

If you need to play more than one sound at a time then you might need QuickTime in any way in the moment, sorry for the bad news...

WAIT!
There is an external "Franklin Audio", maybe this might help you? http://www.franklin3d.com/products/franklin-audio
Never tried it...


Best

Klaus

[gwjvanGA9df0]

I am Really happy about the two last livecode updates with faster graphics and more field options (even if I payed too much already). The sound part of Livecode should get a similar treatment.

I agree- it seems livecode has newer sound handling for iOS, why not for the desktop? I might be mistaken, but I remember (from briefly looking into it) the iOS sound playback in livecode resembling OpenAL calls. If so, I don't know why they haven't included OpenAL calls into regular livecode.

As far as Franklin Audio goes: That is just a wrapper for OpenAL. OpenAL is free and available for every platform. If you know how to make/compile an external for livecode (the hard part), you can make your own OpenAL wrapper. If you aren't at least somewhat familiar with/interested in C/C++ or haven't dabbled in creating externals, then maybe it is worth the $100 to save the hassle of making your own external (though, once you learn how to make externals, it opens up quite a bit of code out there you can use with livecode).

[Sjatplat]

Thank you both

It seems (for now) that I'm going to use multiple player objects. Because I AM NOT using the C based Franklin audio in livecode. The reason?:
because Its C and I want to hold on to the slogan: "write once, deploy anywhere" wich is really questionable at this point. (Klaus pointed out that apple is not updating QT for windows)
Franklin supports windows and mac but not Ios...

Livecode need a better sound engine independent of the sound engine of the platform.

Sj.

[conde]

Exactly Sjaplat. Livecode absolutely needs an independent sound engine. I've built a metronome, which runs in OS X very well, and also in iOS. On Windows, there is no way to play small sound clips of 8 kb in sync. Franklin Audio is really frustrating to use it somehow. Let's hope that RunRev is more active in this regard.

[Dougy]

Agreed. I've been waiting for years for RunRev to address the sound capabilities issue regarding multiple audio files being played concurrently with (reasonably) exact timing, e.g. sound for games. I understand that the audio in Livecode is good enough for most people most of the time, however for applications that require very precise audio timing using multiple sounds, currently Livecode just doesn't do the job well across the majority of platforms. Improving all this would make me seriously happy

[teacherguy]

Agree, agree, agree. Even something simple like having a "clicking" sound for pressing a button is frustratingly late.

[lbartram]

We're moving a large interactive multimedia project from Adobe Director to a new development environment. We're considering a number of options. LiveCode appeals to us on many levels but its rudimentary audio capabilities concern us.

We need a looping stereo sound bed, with a separate track for cue-pointed narrator tracks, and other tracks for sound effects (onCorrect, onIncorrect, button clicks/releases, etc.). These need to have present and future multi platform support and have tight synchronization.

Could someone from RunRev comment on the audio roadmap for LiveCode? I believe that a number of fleeing Director users would embrace LiveCode if its audio capabilities were more robust.

Thanks.

[Klaus]

Hi lbartram,

the LiveCode team does unfortunately not read this forum and this thread on a regular base.
This is mostly intended to discuss new possible features.

You could write a mail to RunRev directly: support@runrev.com

On the other hand what you describe is already possible with QuickTime in LiveCode
and crossplatform on Mac and Windows.

Mobile is another beast


Best

Klaus

[lbartram]

Thank you, Klaus. I will write to the address you provided. QuickTime is about to disappear from Windows, rumors suggest, and then there is the mobile problem you mention. In any case, I think the LiveCode developers need to spend some time with this one if they want multimedia development to proceed on the platform in the future.

[richmond62]

This one is a very old chestnut, and RunRev have skated round this one for ages (I wonder why), and what Livecode needs is this:

1. an in built sound and video player that come with Livecode and it not platform dependent.

code to manipulate this player.

2. sound and video export capabilities.

[andrewferguson]

Hi,
A reworked multimedia layer was one of the stretch goals for the open source kickstarter project.

Multi-channel sound on the platforms that don't yet have it. Upgraded Player control using latest native video libraries on all platforms (Mac, Windows, Linux, iOS and Android). Sound recording cross-platform - 'record sound' on mobile as well as desktop.

Hopefully this will be released with the next generation version of LiveCode in the Autumn, but if not it should be along soon after.

Andrew

[richmond62]

Let's hope the "stretch" does not get lost sight of as attaining the non-stretch goals, almost inevitably, turns out to take longer than anticipated.