LiveCode Forums.

First off, I'm a big fan of the LiveCode language itself. I know this will seem like a rant but it's said with care. I really like the language and think it's great at helping people code, and for teaching students. Even teaching myself to code!

1. The IDE looks ancient, in my opinion. LiveCode has a nice, fresh looking website - and yet no images of the IDE itself. Why? My only guess is that they know it looks outdated. It really needs a lick of paint imo - yes it does the job, but it's not a great first impression.

2. On that same subject, I personally would much rather this was single-window. The number of times the menu/toolbar thing has gone behind the background/backdrop etc, or the tools pallette has. Why is this still like this in 2022? Just look at Xcode or VSCode.

3. Again, IDE: no dark mode?

4. Even the newer LCFM Native has similar: no dark mode, and you can't even resize the window. Just this massive white window in your face.

5. iOS apps go under the notch by default, and do not scroll. I can create a stack using the IDE and put it on my iPhone XS - buttons etc will go UNDER the notch and therefore cannot be pressed. This was the same with my LCFM Native trial. I have to ensure each card has everything moved down enough to not interfere.

5. part ii: If the stack was too wide, they don't even seem to allow scrolling to view the other elements by default.

6. The "New Stack" presets only give iPhone 4/5/6 and 6 Plus! That's like 6-7 years old now! No wonder stuff goes under the notch. I love the language, but if it will deploy to iPhone/iOS then it should at least help you avoid the notch or give a preset size that shows where it is safe to place items.

IDEs are like clothes, they go in and out of fashion.

The clothes I wear have gone in and out of fashion about 4 times in the last 40 years, so what? I like the clothes I wear, and, when I look at someone else I am not so superficial to judge them on their clothes.

I'm with you with the look and feel of the IDE, but at least it is functional.

Everyone has a long wishlist of changes and it's probably not reasonable to expect more than small fraction of these to materialise. For example i very much to see a more fluid code editor and integration with gitHub - my not-so-bad workaround is to move all code into scriptOnlyStacks, which both lends itself to MVC style approach, allows me to break massive scripts into smaller bite [byte?] sized chunks and use super-slick code editors like VSCode for all code editing. FerrusLogic have kindly released a VSCode extension for livecode and it works well (also, great dark mode). I'm quite happy with the code editing side of things now, but wish it was properly integrated into the IDE.

With respect to your 'notch' issues: iphoneSafeAreaInsets() was released in LiveCode 9.6.6 RC1

An iphoneSafeAreaInsets function has been added to enable getting the safe area insets of the device the app is running on. These can be used to adjust your app's user interface elements to avoid areas that are covered by device furniture, e.g. the notch.

As for fitting the screen - you have tools with on stackResize handler and the geometryManager to make responsive layouts -- admittedly the latter is still a bit temperamental but it does work. But there should be no need to be worried about the size of the device the app will run on, if you've planned a nicely responsive layout that can adapt to various sizes...

Stam

I have a feeling, and I may be quite wrong that the LiveCode team are putting all their effort into the underlying language rather than anything re the IDE, which has been the way it is for a very long time.

From my point of view that approach is better than the other way round, especially as any one so motivated can rejig the IDE as they see fit without an undue amonut of effort.

richmond62 wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 05, 2022 6:18 pm

From my point of view that approach is better than the other way round, especially as any one so motivated can rejig the IDE as they see fit without an undue amonut of effort.

I understand that sentiment - you are after all accomplished in this IDE and you know what you know.

The flip side is that people who aren't you - people who are new to the environment and keen to learn - will be put off by an interface that is > 20 years old, not to put too fine a point on it.

Look and feel for me is secondary however as is the case with you. But beyond the obvious, there are many missing features.
Or, as i might point out tongue-in-cheek, you don't know what you don't know

Is it acceptable in this day and age there is no integration with gitHub? Perhaps... but not for many.
Why is there no code-folding?
Why not allow integration with super-slick established code editors to do the above for you?
Stuff like that...

Basic stuff on some level are missing - but weigh that against the cool stuff coming in v10+ : yes we all want all that too

Only LC can prioritise what is feasible and will make the platform more successful.
Whether that's eye candy to draw in new customers, code editor features that are standard elsewhere but missing here, or new ways to create arrays can only be divined by the mothership! But some love towards the IDE look and feel wouldn't go amiss, especially amongst new users who are likely used to shiny/polished IDEs in other environments...

people who are new to the environment and keen to learn - will be put off by an interface that is > 20 years old, not to put too fine a point on it

The children (8 -17 years old) that I have taught LiveCode to every summer for the last 12 years have NEVER been put off by the interface;
in fact they have enjoyed it an found it helpful.

I would argue that the ones who might be put off by the interface are people who have experiences of other interfaces, and inevitably
bring expectations from there to LiveCode.

stam wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 05, 2022 5:41 pm

I'm with you with the look and feel of the IDE, but at least it is functional.

True - I should have worded it better really. I'm very glad it works, and with how it works (for the most part! Aside from the backdrop etc. things mentioned before - I have turned off the backdrop in the past which helps but isn't ideal...). Just looks dated imho.

And thanks - I somehow had missed that iphoneSafeAreaInsets function being added! Will check it out. That helps at least. .

richmond62 wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 05, 2022 7:35 pm

people who are new to the environment and keen to learn - will be put off by an interface that is > 20 years old, not to put too fine a point on it

The children (8 -17 years old) that I have taught LiveCode to every summer for the last 12 years have NEVER been put off by the interface;
in fact they have enjoyed it an found it helpful.

I would argue that the ones who might be put off by the interface are people who have experiences of other interfaces, and inevitably
bring expectations from there to LiveCode.

True, my impressions are probably from other IDEs and not as someone who is completely brand new to coding (although technically I am - but just have seen other IDEs before). It just looks dated and, although your students may not mind I was just putting my thoughts out there of course! I do wonder if others have been put off entirely before - a dated look would make me think it's not actively maintained, personally. Especially with no screenshots of it really on their site.

Very grateful that it's functional and was open source for a long while. I just hope that now we're paying for it, this will be improved.

Especially with no screenshots of it really on their site.

I feel that their website is not trying to attract educational customers.

https://www.facebook.com/RMLCclasses

https://www.facebook.com/Richmonds-Gent ... 8377065389

richmond62 wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 05, 2022 8:00 pm

Especially with no screenshots of it really on their site.

I feel that their website is not trying to attract educational customers.

/RMLCclasses

/Richmonds-Gentle-LiveCode-111308377065389

Is this just you advertising now? Unsure what the relevance of your Facebook groups is.

Just to show that here is a slew of educational material, both with me and elsewhere, which could be used to better advertise LiveCode.