64-bit standalones

[rayjbenet]

I assume from the way the installers treat my standalones that they are 32-bit apps.

Is this true?

If so, are there plans to enable us to create 64-bit apps from Livecode?

[Mark]

Hi,

Yes it is true.

No one knows (at least not officially).

Kind regards,

Mark

[SirWobbyTheFirst]

Hi Ray.

I was hoping for 64-bit support from LiveCode quite some time ago (I think Mark was the one talking to me about it back then, god it makes me sound like I had an afro or something. XD) but I got told there was no market for a 64-bit LiveCode system which is pretty disappointing given that I develop certain software designed to run on Windows Server 2008 R2 which is 64-bit only and would benefit from running as few 32-bit applications as possible.

But as the saying goes "If the money isn't there, the CEO doesn't care."

[jacque]

I think RR understands that it needs to be done.

[FourthWorld]

I was hoping for 64-bit support from LiveCode quite some time ago (I think Mark was the one talking to me about it back then, god it makes me sound like I had an afro or something. XD) but I got told there was no market for a 64-bit LiveCode system...

The market's been changing, and within a few years we can expect pretty much everything to be 64-bit. My understanding is that the RunRev team has been looking into this, but it's a non-trivial transition given the way they have addressing set up in the engine currently, so it's hard to say when the first 64-bit engine will premier.

which is pretty disappointing given that I develop certain software designed to run on Windows Server 2008 R2 which is 64-bit only and would benefit from running as few 32-bit applications as possible.

Since I'm a Linux fanboy I'll take the opportunity for one of those obnoxious fanboy comments: "Gosh, looks like a good time to migrate that server to Linux!"

But seriously, most OSes are 64-bit yet provide good compatibility for 32-bit applications, so in most areas the only implication of the LiveCode engine being 32-bit is that you can't use more than 4 GBs of memory, more than enough for most apps.

What's in the Win Server 2008 R2 setup that makes using 32-bit apps problematic? Is there a patch available to smooth that out?

[SirWobbyTheFirst]

I am suspicious.exe at your comment. ¬_¬ Not sure if trolling me or being serious.

There is no problems really but a native 64-bit executable is always going to be faster than an emulated 32-bit executable, sure the x86_64 architecture runs 32-bit code fine but in Windows (Same with Linux as well, with the ia32 libraries seen in Ubuntu and openSuSE) there is a need to translate between 32-bit and 64-bit system calls which incurs a slight overhead when you are dealing with context switching and converting values from 32-bit to 64-bit and vice versa.

But yeah, chances are the team could release the capability tomorrow and nobody would notice at first unless Rev advertised (Like how Apple did with Snow Leopard) or someone like me just glanced the entry saying LiveCode.exe as missing the *32 at the end of its name in Task Manager for example.

I don't want to start a flame war neither, I've had enough of seeing that on CNET and LifeHacker.

[FourthWorld]

I am suspicious.exe at your comment. ¬_¬ Not sure if trolling me or being serious.

I was just having fun with my comment about switching to a Linux server. Like you, I've seen enough OS-fanboy flame wars to be rather tired of that sort of thing.

There is no problems really but a native 64-bit executable is always going to be faster than an emulated 32-bit executable, sure the x86_64 architecture runs 32-bit code fine but in Windows (Same with Linux as well, with the ia32 libraries seen in Ubuntu and openSuSE) there is a need to translate between 32-bit and 64-bit system calls which incurs a slight overhead when you are dealing with context switching and converting values from 32-bit to 64-bit and vice versa.

That's the sort of detail I was looking for. Thanks for that. I have no experience with Win servers, but with Linux I use 64-bit Ubuntu in my office and 64-bit Debian on my server, and the LiveCode engine still performs on par with PHP and other similar tools, so I've never noticed the difference.

How much of a performance impairment are you seeing?

[Mark]

Hi,

Even if performance isn't an issue, Windows 8 64 bit is much larger than the 32 bit version because ofthe emulation software.

The market will come soon enough. People will get fed up with having to install emulation software. Looking at Apple's recent changes, dropping the classic environment first and more recently PPC compatibility, Apple will probably sooner than later abandon the 32 bit layer and demand from developers to compile for 64 bit. RunRev should be prepared.

Kind regards,

Mark

[SirWobbyTheFirst]

I have to agree there, Ubuntu is particularly annoying requiring you to seperately install the ia32 libs in order to run 32-bit code considering everything else is installed out the box. ¬_¬

One thing I like about openSuSE. Other than the cute ickle gecko logo. (And I just lost man points).